Wynton Marsalis official web site

Any take on this?

In the current climate of all things "youth" it seems weird that even in jazz there is this thing which is more to do with coin then longevity and continuity of the music

having been party to alot of converstaions with managers and promoters about"we don't want to book him he's old" type stuff. i can't help but see the irony. here we are listening to and being very intensly influenced by recordings made at least 40 years ago by artists who would now be in their 80's yet we dont want to watch old guys ?????

jazz is big people music man and young cats coming up usually respect elders, this music is an antedote to the insidious marketting of adolescence. I just wish it didn't penetrate the jazz scene as much as it seems to

so true, so true.

You can blame almost all of it on MTV....

One thing that I have always wondered about with US culture is the priviledging of youth and/or youth culture. In non US cultures (and the enclaves of groups inside the US who align themselves only tangentially with the "majority") it's common to go to a party or event that is mixed in age (gender gets interesting). Nothing unusual to attend parties where 80 year olds are dancing with 22 year olds. It's understood that older people havesomething valuable to contribute to younger people. Older people also balance the high energy and diffuse many tensions in the crowd/group that might oterwise erupt...the kids (50 and under!) are on better behavior, generally speaking, in a mixed age group. Also not so unusual for an older man to date/marry a younger women (ok the other way around too!!).

This way, teeneangers and young adults alaways have some kind of supervision. Village mentality and you cannot get rid of the "elders" or at least you do so at great risk.

Anyway, the music works the same way...older people have more experience and bring to the music a certain balance. Youthful forays are important and neededin order to continuously infuse the music (life in general) with a certain exuberance that only they can bring but older musicians contextualize it all and their "new" ideas/innovations are always but always rooted in something valuable beyond comapre.


The US just may catch up to the rest of the world one day...change is coming.

JG

That is very true, Jerzy Girl. I agree that we have to get to a place in North American society where we uphold the respect for elders and their accomplishments. That's what is great about jazz. It fosters a feeling of striving to make the elders proud. And your last paragraph needs to be bronzed and hung infront of MTV studios so they'll all LEARN something!!

Mboya

Thanks for all the comments. It's a subject that requires much attention. Jurzy, as ever, you are spot on.

one thing I think i have detected over the last few years has been an increasing "narrowness' amongst a significant number of young people. Every generation probably has its differences, and where this is 'positive' (I guess that's a bit too much of a subjective term) then that's cool, however, when i was in my teens, even though we had 'our own thing', we often revered our elders. be it the sharpest cats in the dance ( who dresssed like MEN, not like overgrown adolescents as many do today!) or music and ways of behaving that came from our parents era even. We also would rate quite a wide variety of music and though there is always a certain uniformity, we heralded individual style a fair bit.

Too many Kids now are like automatons, a 3 month old record is though of as "back in the day" and woe be tide those who dare to wear anything but the uniform, talk with a degree of eloquence or show any other signs of subversiveness.

Also they think that a 25 year old is OLD!! Funny thing is I'm thirty three and swear there's not much I can't do now that I could when i was 23, except i do alot more alot better!! and I know tht's the case for many. Look at bernard Hopkins!!

Also they eat so much junk man and exercise??? what's that and why?


This is complex and of course there are wonderful young people out there who we hope will hold fast amidst all of this but the lowest common denominator has truly been found and cash registers are busy!!

MTV man, that's some useless s**t!!!!

Hello, I couldn't resist this topic. I think we have a few cultural problems in the U.S. that can be traced to education. It's a long story, beginning with the Cold War, but we're seeing the results in living color. Our country has promoted math, science, engineering and technology through the schools and there's nothing wrong with that. Somewhere along the way arts education took the hit and after fifth grade, there's little cultural education offered anymore. Prior to the 1960's, music and arts education were mandatory in the public schools through high school, whether students were talented or not! This at least educated people to appreciate and understand the arts. Without education, there's a lack of discernment. With the descent of our culture came low calibre performers -- mass produced -- and a general disrespect of older generations. Instead of becoming unified, we've become a disjointed lot, and although there are many additional influences, education is the primary key to turning things around. It's not only kids who need to be educated, we have to add in adults up to 35 years old now who did not have sufficient instruction in the arts and who need to be Re-Educated. As far as nutrition and exercise are concerned, we have more medical understanding today than ever; however, many people are not paying attention. As far as television, I was wondering last night how our tv could have access to over 200 channels and there was still nothing worth watching. It's a challenge to raise children in this environment. We all should attempt to pitch in with the talents we have and try to make things better. G.

It's funny how when you reach a certain age (usually 40), you begin refering to "young people" and their problems, just like you made fun of old people when you had more nerve, hair, and energy. Nearly everything in this economy is centered toward a younger age group, because that is the demographic that industries have products to sell to. This is largely do to the fetish we have with a so called market economy..that has both squashed the idea of competition through choice, by limiting choice through conglomeration. Ma and Pa stores, craftsmen and women, small record labels are gone, replaced by Walmart and Mc Donalds and minimum wage subsistance...everything is narrowed and focused in such a way so that if you want to eat in a more health conscious way, if you want to find news reporting that is somewhat more balanced, if you want to read fiction from smaller presses, if you want to find music and culture that is not mass produced, ..you have to go and find it. This quandry has nothing to do with age...young and old are faced with the same challenge....

The fetishisation of youth in culture is linked to our inability to understand and deal with age and death. Youth is worshipped, and age is admonished and feared....Consumerism, to consume..is touted as the promise that beats back age and death..the sale this hope of "truth", is bought and thrown away...and death comes anyway.

But remember, ours is a culture of consumers..this country rose not primarily out of a hunger for democracy( born out of the mind of property owners), but out of the insatiable drive for larger and more lucrative markets...part of a means to that end as we know was the genocide of native Americans, enslavement of Africans, the marginalisation of women and children etc....the insanity that drives a nation whose contributions to the world, while often great, bares a homicidal history.... is it any wonder that the president says red is blue, and half the country is more than ready to agree? Is it any wonder that there is a gulf between the ages?

R.J.: This sounds like existential consumerism. The Declaration of Independence, which has faded beyond recognition, was inspired by our freedom of choice, religion and expression. There was a revolution against unjust taxation and social oppression. It has possibly been erased from the American mindset as well. However, we still have hope. I believe. G.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fearing to say anything else because reactions written in others posts of this site.

Tch
Yo

Yo,

You are free to say anything at all..but don't expect your opinions to be free from challenge or debate..If the Oven's Too Hot, Get Out OF the Kitchen!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2005 04:51PM by Rocky James.

gloria Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> R.J.: This sounds like existential consumerism.
> The Declaration of Independence, which has faded
> beyond recognition, was inspired by our freedom of
> choice, religion and expression. There was a
> revolution against unjust taxation and social
> oppression. It has possibly been erased from the
> American mindset as well. However, we still have
> hope. I believe. G.


The American Revolution, and the dream of democracy, was concieved by men, who were property owners, and had the leisure to afford such dreams..even Jefferson, the man who wrote the declaration, did not see fit to allow the same liberty to his own slaves...the American mindset has not erased anything..liberty born on the backs of others is not true liberty now nor has it ever been. From slavery, to the supression of the labor movement, Jim Crow, and now the various attacks on constitutional freedoms,America threatens to consume the very freedoms it proports to spread through out the world. Yes, there is hope, but true freedom will only come when this country stops believing its self delusional platitudes about what it is and where it has come from.

Spot on Rocky!

It's fine to have a dialogue, we learn more about life. I wonder what we can do to preserve our constitutional freedoms. Back to jazz, it's clear how the blues developed as an expression of the people, how the big bands provided consolation to the society involved in the world war, and how the music continues to reflect cultural values, music evolving with culture. You'd hope we'd all be moving forward.

Hi and PEACE!

Get in to debate about the youth question to say that, in my opinion, we can´t blame only on youth but mainly on those who are educating them and building the world they are living at.
Of course we can/must blame MTV....and a lot of others...even parents feading kids with rubbish food because it´s quicker and easier, and allowing little kids (while in danger of influence) to see the movies they see, hours and hours of rubish TV, hours and hours of internet games and so on.....instead of talking to them, conversate and listen to their willings, problems.......really, we can´t blame only youth.

Besides, culture and education in most parts of world (pity here global works) has become more and more empoverished, with almost no content, no perspective, no thinking......just focusing on teaching how to aplied technics and rules to isolated matters and disciplines; never trying to relate them in order to broden perspective or opinion....nor even having the chance to get the real meaning of things in this world, as a whole, and to see human being also as a whole in itself.

Sure, education today only grows up robots (with a book of instructions), no brains, no soul. Unable to find/give real meaning to life....absolutely conditioned, managed and handled...what is great for market......pity is market becomes god.

Under this situation most people don´t even have conscience of all it...and even worst, others consider all this mess up and easier and less complicated way of living. Most youth is so much permeated for this situation that even avoid to asume freedom of choice.

How could it have been in other way, when millions of times we´ve been said that "Coca Cola is the real thing"......well....you and me know it isn´t!!......or do you? (just kidding).

Finally, where is utopia (something that in my opinion should be "conditio si ne qua non" for youth spirit).
Yes utopia (with the best connotations/meaning of the concept), the birthplace for hope and opportunities to rise up new and better worlds and things to come.


All this been said, I´m not absolutely pesimist, still there are exceptions of great youth.
HOPE ALIVES.

Finished, no more blah,blah...

Tcha, tcha.
Yo

Yes Yo

thanks for that responese, this is a great thread, I entirely agree. Can we change it? What small microcosmic way can we as individuals change it rather then becoming increasingly intimidated, dissappointed and exasperated by the seeming decline in our species, which so often seems personified in many of our youth who should indicate what is in store?

Hi

Wanted to point out that I have nothing against Coca Cola, even drink it at times, but I´ll explain you why I said what I did.
Time ago, in a period of my life when been very stressed, a colleague of studies (a zen follower at that time) told me not to anguish trying to be always the best, the first and about sucess (what of course we must try to get as well as excell in everything we do, starting with our own daily lifes)......but the first and most important thing (the magic key) is been real(with us and with others), this in itself inheres the authentic sucess of life (and almost eventually will ease sucess in concrete situations).

Silly me, for a little time misunderstood the colleague advice with the ad thing of "Coca Cola..." (lets say: easy life, not stressing, but mainly focusing on material things). I can asure you that you may look and look at the bottom of the "can" but you will never find the real (real meaning of life and real sucess of life) in it.

Not meaning to forget or demanding what is of justice and basic for any human been living, progress and developement in our nowadays society, just (as I said earlier) not focusing on material and even the less been handled as a market cifer/number.

Luckily, right now, with years and more serene, I know (or I believe to know it)very well what is real, the real important in life, where and how easy is for all of us find it.

Tcha
Yo

D.Skeeme,
forgot thank your kind response, now I do it!.

Answering your question, wish I had the magic key to improve this situation...unfortunately only living personal recetes/ideas...struggling in daily life. But I hope that though been a small help, many small helps could sum up a lot and then become an important help and alltogether get something.
Just thinking.

Concerning the importance of Big People in jazz, I consider that this is so because the non written or recorded history of jazz music is bigger tha in any other. Not only because of its deep roots in aural traditions but also because of the importance of jam sessions and improvisation. And Big People are living Memory/History and in cases the only possibility to know about details, mastery and things.

About Rockys history of the African marching band not very well equiped....to say (just my opinion) that since the night of the days man have used percusion,later melody, and so on, to get armonized himself (feel inside harmony). Since then music has accompanied man to get happines, fertilyty, call rain, and energy in any aspect of life. Considering (I myself do) that this is the basic appel/mission of music (besides intelectual, theoric or abstract consideration which drives us to another and posterior level of feeling music) those, and others, musicians were fullfilling their main asset and function not needing to be literacy in music.

Tcha tcha
Yo yo me

YO YO,

You missed my point entirely. I was talking about a singular group of musicians who played western instruments and music their own way. The point was , to western ears, that may not have sounded right..but by divorcing oneself drom the need of a context and listening to the music in it's own right...perhaps it can be heard for it's own uniqueness.

Sorry, but no, I didn´t at all.

I meant that whatever the music or whoever the listener (wester, easter, north or south) music must always be listened/aproached (may I borrow your words?) "in its own right", having present its first goal, feeling it with the heart and with no stablished ideas about.
I focused on the first, basic and only one purpose/goal of any kind of music: feelings of human been, making them feel well.
At this level we can find that what any kind of musics has in common between them; and we could understand/feel any specific music and like it.

Later, listening from an intelectual/conceptual point of view, we could clasifiy (if required) find specific aspects, singularities and uniqueness of any of them musics; and love their own beauty in their uniqueness.

Yo yo